Plane in the lagoon at Orona
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
The Nautilus has entered the last expedition of this year. The activity includes SCUBA work in the shallow waters off Makena Bay, Maui, Hi. The diving effort includes photogrammetry of two WWII airplane wrecks F6F-3 Hellcat and SB2C-1C Helldiver. The 3D images produced are said to be a baseline for reference later on. It is not known if the exacting participants of this expedition would doing anything on the Orona visit- if it ever happens. But the Nautilus crew would be familiar with the work, making a Orona trip familiar. It is this kind of superior photographic recording that is so important in a investigation of the Electra as it sits on the bottom of the lagoon. Here is a link to the Nautilus blog that describes this activity:
https://nautiluslive.org/blog/2022/10/0 ... kage-sites
There is no news about 2023 expeditions.
https://nautiluslive.org/blog/2022/10/0 ... kage-sites
There is no news about 2023 expeditions.
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
A question about the Itasca radio messages prior to the flight often return to the question: was the Itasca properly informed about the frequencies and modes of operation for the radio communications and the radio direction finding? Several telegrams have been posted here that show that yes, the Itasca was informed numerous times. Here is another dated the 25 of June, 1937. The requirement for voice on 3105 Kc and the range of low frequency required for the airplanes on board direction finder is clearly stated. Plus this telegram clearly states that the exacting low frequency for RDF will be passed directly from the San Francisco CG Headquarters to the Itasca as soon as Earhart has cabled the frequencies to the CG. The followup telegram arrived one day later on the 26th June, which was shown earlier. It is not known how the Itasca misunderstood these telegram instructions.
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Adjust3105forvoice.png)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Adjust3105forvoice.png)
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
The 2023 Nautilus expedition schedule has been posted on the Nautilus website home page under "Expeditions". Here is a rundown of expedition times:
Transit Pacific mapping Jun 16-Jun 21
Canada Network Jun 16-Jul 18
Mid Pacific mapping Jul 18-Jul 28
Johnston Atoll explore Aug 2-Aug 29
PMNM explore Sep 1-Sep 28
OECI explore Oct 1-Oct 19
Chautauqua Seamount Oct 22-Nov 5
Hawaii mapping Nov 7-Nov 17
Jarvis Island mapping Nov 20-Dec 20
As is shown, the first half of the year is well north of the equator. The second half of the year, some south of the equator, offers several opportunities to get to Orona. Nothing, so far, explicitly says the expeditions will do so. The very last of the year is Jarvis Island mapping and the best chance the expedition might go to Orona.
Dr. Ballard has said " I find what I can see" or something like that and he and his crew are very well versed on optics and all the tricks light can play. To help measure what is seen, twin laser beams stationed an exact known distance apart are employed. Refraction and virtual images are well known to the Nautilus crew. If Dr. Ballard will look at the Orona image, I think he will see the airplane. I will monitor the expedition blogs to see if any further mention of the 3D photogrammetry used last year around Hawaii to document WWII aircraft remains.
As I approach my 80th year, I hope someone, if not Dr. Ballard, will take up the Orona idea and carry it to discovery and conclusion.
Transit Pacific mapping Jun 16-Jun 21
Canada Network Jun 16-Jul 18
Mid Pacific mapping Jul 18-Jul 28
Johnston Atoll explore Aug 2-Aug 29
PMNM explore Sep 1-Sep 28
OECI explore Oct 1-Oct 19
Chautauqua Seamount Oct 22-Nov 5
Hawaii mapping Nov 7-Nov 17
Jarvis Island mapping Nov 20-Dec 20
As is shown, the first half of the year is well north of the equator. The second half of the year, some south of the equator, offers several opportunities to get to Orona. Nothing, so far, explicitly says the expeditions will do so. The very last of the year is Jarvis Island mapping and the best chance the expedition might go to Orona.
Dr. Ballard has said " I find what I can see" or something like that and he and his crew are very well versed on optics and all the tricks light can play. To help measure what is seen, twin laser beams stationed an exact known distance apart are employed. Refraction and virtual images are well known to the Nautilus crew. If Dr. Ballard will look at the Orona image, I think he will see the airplane. I will monitor the expedition blogs to see if any further mention of the 3D photogrammetry used last year around Hawaii to document WWII aircraft remains.
As I approach my 80th year, I hope someone, if not Dr. Ballard, will take up the Orona idea and carry it to discovery and conclusion.
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
I have sometimes thought proving this part of the Orona Saipan theory, with the contribution of the physical discovery and documentation of the Electra at Orona, would prove detrimental to US/Japan relations. But I always come back to the thinking that such a revelation, when all other parts of the mystery are resolved, would in fact be beneficial especially for the Japanese outlook on the Pacific war. With the knowledge that the Emperor Hirohito and the Japanese military was tricked into the attack at Pearl Harbor by general Hideki Tojo, later the prime minister, Japanese society might find some solace in the miserable history of the Pacific War. Perhaps this knowledge would allow the removal of commemoration of Tojo at the Yasukuni Shrine in Tokyo and prompt improved awareness in a new generation of Japanese.
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
Because readers of this chronicle are interested in the Amelia Earhart mystery and frequently read other ideas and theories about the disappearance, I must respond to critics, who have perfectly good theories about the subject, but sometimes reach out to their readers to criticize other ideas that conflict with their own. To criticism in particular I respond:
Confused arguments by critics of the Jaluit dock image assessment continue and are obviously wrong. In their arguments, the Nikumaroro research group attempts to prove that the dock photo is pre-1937 and further that the Jabor dock and the Sidney dock are the same dock. The first wrong claim is that Robert Reimers, the German Marshallese businessman who built the 1936 dock was but a child in 1937 and the remembrance of a child is not meaningful. Wrong of course. Robert Reimers born on Jaluit 1909 worked as a young businessman and resident manager for the Japanese firm Taiyo Shoten and was charged with the construction of the Jabor pier /dock in 1936. A second error is the critical assertion that four docks were built at the present Jabor dock location using the 1928 Vanderbilt yacht photo as proof that the Jaluit dock photo had to be from 1935 or earlier. This completely disregards the documentary evidence of the Pacific Islands Magazine (PIM) article of September 1935 that describes the July 1935 visit by the Japanese navy and how that visit used the the older Gesellschaft (German control period) dock. Sometimes referred to as the Sidney dock because in order to get from the Marshalls to Australia, Europe, or anywhere else one had to first get to Sidney, Australia. This older dock- extending some 550 feet from shore- served the blue water vessels that went to Sidney. We see only remnants of the pier foundation in satellite views today.
Further, the Vanderbilt yacht, pictured 1928 at the Sidney dock of the Gesellschaft times or the period of German occupation, is 250 feet long -that includes the extended bowsprit- and could not be docked at the the much smaller Jabor dock that Robert Reimer built 1936, with Marshallese labor. In the Jabar dock photo in which Amelia and Fred appear, note that the larger ships are anchored away from the small dock.
The investigative group claims the lagoon entrance islet and parts of Jabor town should appear in the 1928 photo. They would except the photo was taken looking into a rising sun that washes out the background.
In a purposeful violation of the “scientific method” endorsed by the research group, the descriptive text that accompanies the 1928 archive photo is claimed to be a mistake: the note “facing 32” degrees is wrong they say and should actually be 320 degrees. Using that deception, the argument continues to a “proof” that the image dates 1935 or earlier.
The images below show the relation of the Vanderbilt yacht and the pier length. The red line represents the overall length including bowsprit and rear deck and the black the estimated hull waterline. It matches the 1928 image more or less. With so many are trying to discredit the 1937 image of the fliers on the dock at Jabor town, using confused logic and sometimes outright false information, my analysis of the image and proofs that the image was taken in 1937 are enhanced.
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Jaluitdock1928.jpg)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Vanderbiltyachtatsydney.png)
Confused arguments by critics of the Jaluit dock image assessment continue and are obviously wrong. In their arguments, the Nikumaroro research group attempts to prove that the dock photo is pre-1937 and further that the Jabor dock and the Sidney dock are the same dock. The first wrong claim is that Robert Reimers, the German Marshallese businessman who built the 1936 dock was but a child in 1937 and the remembrance of a child is not meaningful. Wrong of course. Robert Reimers born on Jaluit 1909 worked as a young businessman and resident manager for the Japanese firm Taiyo Shoten and was charged with the construction of the Jabor pier /dock in 1936. A second error is the critical assertion that four docks were built at the present Jabor dock location using the 1928 Vanderbilt yacht photo as proof that the Jaluit dock photo had to be from 1935 or earlier. This completely disregards the documentary evidence of the Pacific Islands Magazine (PIM) article of September 1935 that describes the July 1935 visit by the Japanese navy and how that visit used the the older Gesellschaft (German control period) dock. Sometimes referred to as the Sidney dock because in order to get from the Marshalls to Australia, Europe, or anywhere else one had to first get to Sidney, Australia. This older dock- extending some 550 feet from shore- served the blue water vessels that went to Sidney. We see only remnants of the pier foundation in satellite views today.
Further, the Vanderbilt yacht, pictured 1928 at the Sidney dock of the Gesellschaft times or the period of German occupation, is 250 feet long -that includes the extended bowsprit- and could not be docked at the the much smaller Jabor dock that Robert Reimer built 1936, with Marshallese labor. In the Jabar dock photo in which Amelia and Fred appear, note that the larger ships are anchored away from the small dock.
The investigative group claims the lagoon entrance islet and parts of Jabor town should appear in the 1928 photo. They would except the photo was taken looking into a rising sun that washes out the background.
In a purposeful violation of the “scientific method” endorsed by the research group, the descriptive text that accompanies the 1928 archive photo is claimed to be a mistake: the note “facing 32” degrees is wrong they say and should actually be 320 degrees. Using that deception, the argument continues to a “proof” that the image dates 1935 or earlier.
The images below show the relation of the Vanderbilt yacht and the pier length. The red line represents the overall length including bowsprit and rear deck and the black the estimated hull waterline. It matches the 1928 image more or less. With so many are trying to discredit the 1937 image of the fliers on the dock at Jabor town, using confused logic and sometimes outright false information, my analysis of the image and proofs that the image was taken in 1937 are enhanced.
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Jaluitdock1928.jpg)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Vanderbiltyachtatsydney.png)
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
Because readers of this chronicle are interested in the Amelia Earhart mystery and frequently read other ideas and theories about the disappearance, I must respond to critics, who have perfectly good theories about the subject, but sometimes reach out to their readers to criticize other ideas that conflict with their own. To criticism in particular I respond:
Confused arguments by critics of the Jaluit dock image assessment continue and are obviously wrong. In their arguments, the Nikumaroro research group attempts to prove that the dock photo is pre-1937 and further that the Jabor dock and the Sidney dock are the same dock. The first wrong claim is that Robert Reimers, the German Marshallese businessman who built the 1936 dock was but a child in 1937 and the remembrance of a child is not meaningful. Wrong of course. Robert Reimers born on Jaluit 1909 worked as a young businessman and resident manager for the Japanese firm Taiyo Shoten and was charged with the construction of the Jabor pier /dock in 1936. A second error is the critical assertion that four docks were built at the present Jabor dock location using the 1928 Vanderbilt yacht photo as proof that the Jaluit dock photo had to be from 1935 or earlier. This completely disregards the documentary evidence of the Pacific Islands Magazine (PIM) article of September 1935 that describes the July 1935 visit by the Japanese navy and how that visit used the the older Gesellschaft (German control period) dock. Sometimes referred to as the Sidney dock because in order to get from the Marshalls to Australia, Europe, or anywhere else one had to first get to Sidney, Australia. This older dock- extending some 550 feet from shore- served the blue water vessels that went to Sidney. We see only remnants of the pier foundation in satellite views today.
Further, the Vanderbilt yacht, pictured 1928 at the Sidney dock of the Gesellschaft times or the period of German occupation, is 250 feet long -that includes the extended bowsprit- and could not be docked at the the much smaller Jabor dock that Robert Reimer built 1936, with Marshallese labor. In the Jabar dock photo in which Amelia and Fred appear, note that the larger ships are anchored away from the small dock.
The investigative group claims the lagoon entrance islet and parts of Jabor town should appear in the 1928 photo. They would except the photo was taken looking into a rising sun that washes out the background.
In a purposeful violation of the “scientific method” endorsed by the research group, the descriptive text that accompanies the 1928 archive photo is claimed to be a mistake: the note “facing 32” degrees is wrong they say and should actually be 320 degrees. Using that deception, the argument continues to a “proof” that the image dates 1935 or earlier.
The images below show the relation of the Vanderbilt yacht and the pier length. The red line represents the overall length including bowsprit and rear deck and the black the estimated hull waterline. It matches the 1928 image more or less. With so many are trying to discredit the 1937 image of the fliers on the dock at Jabor town, using confused logic and sometimes outright false information, my analysis of the image and proofs that the image was taken in 1937 are enhanced.
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Jaluitdock1928.jpg)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Vanderbiltyachtatsydney.png)
Confused arguments by critics of the Jaluit dock image assessment continue and are obviously wrong. In their arguments, the Nikumaroro research group attempts to prove that the dock photo is pre-1937 and further that the Jabor dock and the Sidney dock are the same dock. The first wrong claim is that Robert Reimers, the German Marshallese businessman who built the 1936 dock was but a child in 1937 and the remembrance of a child is not meaningful. Wrong of course. Robert Reimers born on Jaluit 1909 worked as a young businessman and resident manager for the Japanese firm Taiyo Shoten and was charged with the construction of the Jabor pier /dock in 1936. A second error is the critical assertion that four docks were built at the present Jabor dock location using the 1928 Vanderbilt yacht photo as proof that the Jaluit dock photo had to be from 1935 or earlier. This completely disregards the documentary evidence of the Pacific Islands Magazine (PIM) article of September 1935 that describes the July 1935 visit by the Japanese navy and how that visit used the the older Gesellschaft (German control period) dock. Sometimes referred to as the Sidney dock because in order to get from the Marshalls to Australia, Europe, or anywhere else one had to first get to Sidney, Australia. This older dock- extending some 550 feet from shore- served the blue water vessels that went to Sidney. We see only remnants of the pier foundation in satellite views today.
Further, the Vanderbilt yacht, pictured 1928 at the Sidney dock of the Gesellschaft times or the period of German occupation, is 250 feet long -that includes the extended bowsprit- and could not be docked at the the much smaller Jabor dock that Robert Reimer built 1936, with Marshallese labor. In the Jabar dock photo in which Amelia and Fred appear, note that the larger ships are anchored away from the small dock.
The investigative group claims the lagoon entrance islet and parts of Jabor town should appear in the 1928 photo. They would except the photo was taken looking into a rising sun that washes out the background.
In a purposeful violation of the “scientific method” endorsed by the research group, the descriptive text that accompanies the 1928 archive photo is claimed to be a mistake: the note “facing 32” degrees is wrong they say and should actually be 320 degrees. Using that deception, the argument continues to a “proof” that the image dates 1935 or earlier.
The images below show the relation of the Vanderbilt yacht and the pier length. The red line represents the overall length including bowsprit and rear deck and the black the estimated hull waterline. It matches the 1928 image more or less. With so many are trying to discredit the 1937 image of the fliers on the dock at Jabor town, using confused logic and sometimes outright false information, my analysis of the image and proofs that the image was taken in 1937 are enhanced.
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Jaluitdock1928.jpg)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Vanderbiltyachtatsydney.png)
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
The Nautilus OET has departed Honolulu for the 2023 expedition. No discussion of going to Orona in any of the expedition reviews.
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
As previously discussed, angle measurements using the GE tool can also be used to evaluate the image. Unlike the dimension measurements, the angle measurements are not impacted by refraction and the angle measurements are taken directly. Below are shown the angle measurements from the center of the left vertical stabilizer and the left and right engine propeller hubs of the Orona image and the overhead level flight sketch of the Electra. There will be very minor differences as the plane is not straight and level on the lagoon floor. But very close as my plastic protractor measures very closely with the GE ruler. My protractor has 2 degree markings so not that accurate. Just as with the dimension measurements, the 7 recognized major components of the airframe allow 21 lines (7!=6+5+......+1=21) to be drawn and those 21 angles result in 210 comparisons (21!=20+19+18+17+........+1= 210). The majority of the comparison between the L10E sketch and the Orona image are very close. Some of those dimension relations are shown in the related sketch.![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/22.8%C2%BA.png)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Anglemeasure.png)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/RGBtriangles.jpg)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/22.8%C2%BA.png)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Anglemeasure.png)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/RGBtriangles.jpg)
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
Happy Birthday Amelia Earhart
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Ameliaupclose.png)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Ameliaupclose.png)
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
The question arises about who actually owns the Electra should it's location be found. Pictured below is Amelia and Dr. Edward Elliott standing before the Electra in 1936. Doctor Elliott and Purdue University financed the purchase of the L10E during the period Amelia was acting as a consultant for Purdue's program of increasing the women's role in science and aeronautics and as a teacher in the Purdue Aeronautics school. An early STEM project. More recently, President Mitchell Daniels in 2019 stated that Purdue would pursue all it's property rights if the plane was located. It's not known if the current President of Purdue, Dr. Mung Chiang, would direct the University to do so. I anticipate that the University will participate in the investigation when the airplane is found.
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Purdueplane.png)
![Image](http://aquariusradar.com/Purdueplane.png)
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
The Nautilus has posted the 2024 exploration schedule on the Nautilus.org website. NA 166 and NA 165 scheduled for late summer provides the best times for exploration of Orona. The organization has not expressed an interest in Orona with regard to the search for Amelia's plane. Probably NA 166 around Howland Island will be chasing after the most recent "discovery"- a very fuzzy sonar image of something very deep in the ocean off of Howland's west side. All these deep water searches have proven very expensive and unproductive. I think NA 165 near American Samoa will be searching for the Samoan Clipper just as the 2019 expedition did. Readers can see the exploration schedule and some details of each expedition at the Nautilus.org web pages.
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
An explorer has said he has found Amelia's L10E plane on the ocean bottom some 16,000 feet down using advance autonomous deep diver. He posted a sonar image of the object he claims is Amelia's plane. However, he has no exacting location and no physical measurements of the object. I refrain from disparaging his claims except to say the claim is premature and using it as solid proof isn't backed up by any scientific measurement. So confidant is the expedition(s) planned efforts that pursuing funding for a search for MH370 is justified they say. But readers can compare the sonar image of the claimed plane against the Quick Bird 2006 image at Google Earth of the Orona lagoon. Both posted here for comparison. Those readers with GE can examine the 2006 lagoon image and make a judgement as to which is more likely the plane.
http://Aquariusradar.com/Amelia'splanehuh.png http://Aquariusradar.com/OronaL10E.png
http://Aquariusradar.com/Amelia'splanehuh.png http://Aquariusradar.com/OronaL10E.png
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
An explorer has said he has found Amelia's L10E plane on the ocean bottom some 16,000 feet down using advance autonomous deep diver. He posted a sonar image of the object he claims is Amelia's plane. However, he has no exacting location and no physical measurements of the object. I refrain from disparaging his claims except to say the claim is premature and using it as solid proof. So confidant is the expedition(s) planned efforts that pursuing funding for a search for MH370 is justified they say. But readers can compare the sonar image of the claimed plane against the Quick Bird 2006 image at Google Earth of the Orona lagoon. Both posted here for comparison. Those readers with GE can examine the 2006 lagoon image and make a judgement as to which is more likely the plane.
![Image](http://Aquariusradar.com/OronaL10E.jpg)
![Image](http://Aquariusradar.com/Amelia%27splanehuh.png)
![Image](http://Aquariusradar.com/OronaL10E.jpg)
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
The OET Nautilus has departed Hawaii to begin the 2024 expedition season. The ship will not be in the South Pacific until late summer/early fall. No indications that a search for Amelia's plane is planned. Dr. Ballard has stated that every clue to the plane's location will be pursued. Hopefully, Orona will among those clues the ship may investigate. Ballard has made finding the aircraft a life challenge and he, like myself, is running out of time. Good luck Nautilus and crew on these voyages.
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Re: Plane in the lagoon at Orona
After the completion of their Northeast Pacific expedition, the OET ship Nautilus has departed Honolulu for the 2024 South Pacific expeditions. Transiting from point to point the ship will have ample opportunity to pass through the Phoenix Islands. No specific plans to visit Orona. Speculation: it is noted that on the aft starboard of the ship there appear to be two rubber Zodiac style boats under tarps. Also on the two days immediate to departure, four (4) 55 gallon drums of red color (flammable) liquid (200+ gallons) hoisted aboard and transferred to on board holding tank. This is gasoline for the small boat engines. Are they planning shallow water SCUBA diving?; at Orona??? The on board video normally displays the Lat/Lon so we can keep track of the ships position.
An interesting summer/ fall ahead.
An interesting summer/ fall ahead.